Wednesday, December 23, 2009

Asylum seekers

I appreciate this is running up the Daily Mail Comment Attractor, but there we have it. The simple truth; we struggle to deport those who are here illegally.

“Last year we removed a record 5,400 foreign nationals, including over 50 killers and attempted killers, over 200 sex offenders and more than 1,500 drug offenders. In total more than 66,000 people were removed or returned home voluntarily.”

But the man in the article above was waiting for his turn. Asylum seekers, by their very nature, often live entirely outside society -- no licence, no legal job, no bus pass, no fixed address, no mobile phone contract.

Mr Ibrahim, who has never held a valid driving licence, had been banned for nine months for driving while disqualified, without insurance or a licence, and was on bail at the time of the collision.

Now that's taking the piss. He's just been convicted of more driving offences too.

Actually, this isn't about asylum seekers, but the sentences for causing death by dangerous driving, driving whilst disqualified and suchlike. The short version: they should be stiffer.

Wow, maybe this is the Daily Mail.


  1. The case is reported in a strange way, completely ignoring the question of what crime Ibrahim committed and what sentence he received for it. It completely misses the point - in my view as an MOP - that the father shouldn't have to see his daughter's killer deported to 'get justice', he should've got justice from the sentence Ibrahim got for the crime in the first place!

    Whether, morally speaking, we should or should not deport a man who is an illegal immigrant and a criminal but who has a family in the UK who would be broken apart by deporting him, is a difficult question and honestly I think I could live with either option. What's your view on the deportion point, AnonProc?

  2. I don't know what an MOP is but I agree with Cabbage's sensitive comments.

    We should note this happened in 2003 before the penalties were increased in the circumstances where the death is accidental but the driver is not licensed or is disqualified, up to 2 years.
    One might argue that that increase is still too small, especially for one who has been disqualified.

  3. There are two, and in my view, only two factors here:-

    1) Ibrahims sentence seems (like many others) abysmally inadequate either as a just punishment for taking a life, or as a deterrent to other unqualified, uninsured motoring miscreants...Amy's parents are bound to see this as insulting and do I...

    2) The man is a FAILED asylum-seeker...He doesn't therefore belong here and shouldn't be allowed to stay here...any "roots" he's put down are totally irrelevant...Come to that, it's not beyond reasonable expectations for his wife and kids to follow him, wherever he's sent...

    Before I get branded "Angry of Tunbridge Wells" or something, I started my adult years as a very tolerant, fairly left-wing individual from a distinctly working class the years since I have seen all my illusions shattered by piss-takers and politicians (often one and the same) and am becoming increasingly radicalised and many ways it saddens me, but it seems increasingly that many around me feel the same...

  4. The penalties for serious driving offences are both wholly inapropriate and inadequate. It's not (or it at least shouldn't be) a bad thing to want to see our justice system function properly. A friend of mine was killd by a driver who was both drunk and disqualified. He walked from court with a suspended prison sentence, another driving ban (like the last one worked) and a small financial penalty - shocking. If a driver kills someone because of dangerous, careless or inconsiderate driver they should be serving time in prison.

    I'd like to see sentences of up to 15 years in prison or more for drivers who kill on the roads (especially with other agrivating factors such as being disqualified, no licence, no insurance, drunk, on drugs etc.)

  5. Sir

    I beg to differ with your viewpoint on asylum seekers. You say they often live outside the system. I do not wholly agree. Most asylum seekers I deal with for driving offences have started to and sometimes complete their licences. They live at a specific address.

    The ones I come into contact with for other matters are in touch with UKBA regularly - usually to sign on at an immigration centre. In any case they mostly entered the country and made themselves known to the authorities and were documented at the point of entry.

    I agree that their jobs will not be legal. Most of the people I deal with have PAYG phones so I think this factor is not massively relevant with asylum seekers.

    Illegal immigrants on the other hand very definately live outside the system. An altogether more worrying prospect especially as by definition we don't know how many there are!!

  6. can someone explain the purpose of banning someone from driving as punishment for driving whilst banned?